Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Dave (Owen Dyneto)
I just was cruising through looking for some Tech Bulletin info and came across this six cylinder post. I have received NO request from you for information on this subject. You need to contact me directly by email in any case like this. I CANNOT OVER INFASIZE THE FACT THAT I DO NOT FREQUENTLY GO TO ANY OF THE FORUM SITES. I JUST DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DO SO. That is why I almost always leave my email address on all posts. I WILL ANSWER any request by email, but not often from posts BECAUSE I SIMPLY HAVE NOT SEEN THE POST. It is not that I ignore them. It is a simple fact of life, If anyone wants an be sure of an answer, THEY MUST CONTACT ME DIRECTLY BY EMAIL.

Roger has contacted my by email and I have told him that I believe his recent engine is one of those produced for the White trucks. I have so far not been able to raise any White truck collector or historian with a six cylinder Packard engine, so I do not know how they were serial numbered. Most information I have on these engines is in Master Motor Builders. The serial of Roger's engine, A26044 would seem to indicate they started serials at A 26001. It seems to fit OK with the way they serialed their marine engines of the period. 1M-245 started at MA 1001 and 1M-356 started at MA 20001 for example.

And yes, they did build some 23rd Series six cylinder cars. Very few, I will grant you, but they did build some. Acording to Packard documentation, their numbers started at H1516 whereas the 22nd Series six started at G1501. Don't ask me why the change but their documentation says all 23rd Series engines started at "16" instead of "01".

Regards,
Bob Neal
RJNeal0000@aol.com

The oversize filter canister is curcumstantial evidence that this is a truck engine.

There sems to be a problem with the site, recognized experts such as Bob Neal shoiuld be consulted before 3 or 4 pages of conjecture are aired and wasted. When I first foung the site there were many many pages of damaging misinformation
about Kanter Autpo Products and Egge. Nobody from the site had contacted either of us. I seems to me that rather than getting information from the horses mouth, many members would rather pepper the airwaves with wild guesses. Is this a site to help all of us be more knowledgable or is it just to while the time away regardless of the consequences. Go figure.


Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ

Fred, this is a website for enthusiast to discuss things various Packard related topics with one another. As Robert Neal stated, even he isn't 100% sure what the motor is from either.

Who's to say that one of the "non-experts" here may have information about the subject at hand tucked away in a desk drawer, or knowledge from experience. It's called an open discussion. If you come in here with posts like that, all it does is make folks intimated to post. Every person that gets scared away, is one less person that can benefit a conversation, and as such we all are a little poorer for it.

I understand that you were not happy with some of the posts about your company. Which you have defended several times. If you have information that constructively adds to the discussion then please lets have it. Otherwise your Elitist attitude is really off putting to myself, and many of the members of the website who are just trying to have a discussion through mutual ideas and experience. Frankly you are at a tipping point where you are putting people off of you and your company with your harshly Authoritarian posts.

If I knew this engine was going to cause such a ruckus I would have just left it covered up in the corner of the garage. I have enjoyed all of the input of what it might or might not be but I never wanted to start a riff with anyone.
I thought the engine was unique and I was curious as to the application it was used for. It really does not matter to me what it was used for I just thought it was a interesting piece of Packard history. Thanks to all.

Taximan:
Don't let the rukus chase u away. Many of us have enjoyed this engine thread. Hope u have gained at least a little positive input from it too. I have. Looking forward to more from u as well. Keep us posted on what u find out. Who knows, maybe next week or next month any of the rest of us mite run across a similar engine or parts.

Quote:

I wouldn't give the 'ruckus' a second thought! I found the thread both entertaining and educational. By following the thread and going to the parts manual to answer some of my own questions (and coming up with some new ones), I now know just a bit more about the the 'bathtub' era and the engines available for that period than I did before.

If I knew this engine was going to cause such a ruckus I would have just left it covered up in the corner of the garage. I have enjoyed all of the input of what it might or might not be but I never wanted to start a riff with anyone.
I thought the engine was unique and I was curious as to the application it was used for. It really does not matter to me what it was used for I just thought it was a interesting piece of Packard history. Thanks to all.

Absolutely agree with JD and PV8. I too have enjoyed the discussion and learned even more. Riffs happen in the best of times and places but they sort themselves out. I would only hope that anyone who has second thoughts about posting a question after a heated discussion remember an old saying or a paraphrase thereof: "The only stupid question is one not asked."

I too thought it an interesting and informative thread, very worthwhile. Especially Robert Neal's confirmation of the Nat Dawes data that some (few) 23rd series 6-cylinder cars were produced. I suspect we'll get more details about that when Robert's book comes out.

BTW, in looking again at the White Motors specifications for the 3014 truck, I see that the Packard-supplied 1T-245 engine was supplied with a centrifugal governor to limit engine rpms to 3400.

On differences of opinion etc and etc

On post #22 above I said " The oversize filter canister is circumstantial evidence that this is a truck engine" In this case I do not intend in any way to be authoritarian or to indicate in any way that I know anything about the original application of this engine. Circumstantial evidence is just that, it MAY lead someone to a conclusion but it in no way is proof of any sort. This is not even my opinion that this is a truck engine, any opinion formed is that of the reader.

Likewise if this is considered to be authoritarian, then it is my opinion that that conclusion is in the mind of the reader. I respect differences of opinion and will let readers form their own.

Now as to Robert Neal's post and my comment. I do not personally know him , but I do know people who do. I know him only by his meticulous and scholarly work. Those who I asked said he is a knowledgeable dedicated person with a quiet and calm demeanor as that of a college professor. To get him to rise to the level of the tone of his post must have taken quite a lot, thus I made the comments I made. I did not read between his lines, I read his lines.

When I'm guessing I make it clear, when I'm pretty sure, I leave room for doubt and correction by me or anyone else. When I'm absolutely sure I state it as such. You will find several posts where I am absolutely sure and then I find I'm dead wrong. I quickly and clearly state the error I made and the correction, I hide behind nothing, not even a fake screen name (which by the way baffles me??)

Everyone has the right to an opinion or to state what they believe are facts. They also must accept the duty to correct them and apologize when confronted with other more accurate information. This is called being a gentleman who is willing to learn.

Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ

Fred I didn't detect any "raised" tone in Mr. Neal's post. He was simply letting people know the he doesn't check the forum that often, so it is best to email him directly as opposed to waiting for him to answer in Forum.

I standby my statement, and it echos the opinions of many Members here that have send me private messages and emails expressing that. At the end of the day the buck stops with me, and I will have to do is in the best interest of the membership as a whole. I know you can be "spirited" in your comments, just remember the folks here are for enjoyment, and when every discussion turns in the a fire and brimstone lecture, it's not fun anymore. There are no prizes for being the loudest, or trying to come in first. Others have failed to understand that, and as such are no longer with us here.

As I have said before to others their departures, I hope this is the last conversation I will have on this matter.

Now back to the a far more interesting discussion on this 6cyl motor.....already in progress.