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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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2008/6/10 13:46
From Packardia
Posts: 5184
Quote:
... I hope I didn't sound flippant or disrespectful of 'those folks and that era' in my post, as it was most certainly not my intent. Apologies if I offended ...

Chris (Packard newbie), I'm anything but sure if I read every of your so far 542 comments at PackardInfo but what I know for certain is that you express yourself in a refined manner, always polite and courteous. After looking at the wooden shacks it is conclusively justified to ask for a certain kind of standard.
According to Trout, Steven (2006). Cather Studies Vol. 6: History, Memory, and War. University of Nebraska Press. pp. 275276. ISBN 978-0-8032-9464-6 the first rough cast of the Liberty engine was made within 5 days. The talk revolves around an engine, which had been no less than one of the very first attempts at creating a modular engine that could be easily mass-produced by several different manufacturing companies in large quantity, ranging from four- to twelve-cylinder configuration and included design elements such as OHC and light metal pistons.
In a departure from todays' convention the government wasn't ordering a couple of dozen power plants to be delivered in a decade. All in all the production comprised more than 6,000 engines, based on the ->data compiled by Robert Neal.

Take a closer look, please, at pic #3 and #4 below. There the next row of testing sheds is to be seen in the background.


source: U.S. National Archives; -> Public Domain Archive
Copyright info: no known copyright restrictions
Click to enlarge!

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jpg  Installation of jacks in testing sheds.jpg (319.02 KB)
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jpg  Installation of jacks in testing sheds, detail.jpg (651.01 KB)
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jpg  Installation of a testing jack.jpg (380.94 KB)
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jpg  Installation of a testing jack, detail.jpg (607.28 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/10/23 0:10
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10295
Gerd,

Looking up Liberty engines on Wikipedia will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.. Cannot verify the content. Although, isn't Wiki renowned for its accuracy?

And, a couple of years ago, visited a small car collection in a little country town, it contained a Liberty powered MAB "speedster", and a Rolls-Royce Meteor engine. One of the Libertys valve covers came from "Babs"!

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jpg  MAB.JPG (162.00 KB)
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jpg  MAB2.JPG (133.97 KB)
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jpg  MAB3.JPG (119.93 KB)
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jpg  MAB4.JPG (140.50 KB)
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jpg  MAB5.JPG (110.17 KB)
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jpg  MAB6.JPG (138.46 KB)
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jpg  Meteor Engine2.JPG (89.09 KB)
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jpg  Meteor Engine.JPG (152.83 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/10/23 3:53
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10295
Instead of this rather bland statement: "Looking up Liberty engines on Wikipedia will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.. Cannot verify the content. Although, isn't Wiki renowned for its accuracy? " I wanted to post a document but was having trouble doing so. However its now sorted out and attached. But the comment "Although, isn't Wiki renowned for its accuracy?" should still be kept in mind.

Attach file:


pdf Liberty Aircraft Engines - ex Wikipedia.pdf Size: 240.19 KB; Hits: 35

Posted on: 2019/10/23 22:34
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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2008/6/10 13:46
From Packardia
Posts: 5184
Mal, Wikipedia about Wikipedia: "Wikipedia has been criticized for exhibiting systemic bias, for presenting a mixture of "truths, half truths, and some falsehoods"

Open in new window
White Triplex land speed record car, showing the three engines, source: Wikipedia


According to Stuart D. Brandes, author of Warhogs: A History of War Profits in America, University Press of Kentucky, 2015, ISBN 0813157609, 9780813157603, 384 pages, the government paid for the facilities for the production of the Liberty motor. (scroll down to page 161 / 162).

Pic #5 below shows the manual ignition advance and hand throttle.

source: U.S. National Archives; -> Public Domain Archive
Copyright info: no known copyright restrictions
Click to enlarge!

Attach file:



jpg  Engine on testing stand.jpg (375.94 KB)
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jpg  Engine on testing stand, detail.jpg (786.78 KB)
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jpg  Interior of control room in testing shed.jpg (342.99 KB)
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jpg  Interior of control room in testing shed, detail2.jpg (596.56 KB)
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jpg  Interior of control room in testing shed, detail3.jpg (136.52 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/10/25 21:00
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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Joined:
2008/6/10 13:46
From Packardia
Posts: 5184
Quote:
I wonder if those women were paid the same as the men.

I don't think there were any women working at the GM or Ford plants which is understandable given the deplorable working conditions. The present GM strike has us wondering about the future of that company. Unfortunately when working conditions are so bad that labor unionizes the effects linger.

The railroads paid a heavy price as well for labor abuse that existed early on.[Tim Cole; posted on: 10/20]


Quote:
Also Tim, in response to your remark on women working in these places, my Mom had a job at a munitions factory up here in Canada when she was a very young girl. She said it was both dangerous and, as you said had deplorable working conditions. She recounted coworkers getting digits and even hands blown off by accidents but she said the pay was three times what she could make as a serger, cook, or any of the other 'jobs of the day' so women were willing to take the risk. Lucky for her, she emerged with all here fingers, but as a result of excessive noise, had severe hearing loss at a very young age. [Chris (Packard newbie); posted on: 10/21]




source: U.S. National Archives; -> Public Domain Archive
Copyright info: no known copyright restrictions
Click to enlarge!

Attach file:



jpg  Girls at work.jpg (352.79 KB)
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jpg  Girls at work, detail.jpg (758.51 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/10/27 12:58
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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Joined:
2008/6/10 13:46
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Posts: 5184
source: U.S. National Archives; -> Public Domain Archive
Copyright info: no known copyright restrictions
Click to enlarge!

Attach file:



jpg  Red Cross workers at Packard Motor Co.jpg (330.99 KB)
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jpg  Red Cross workers at Packard Motor Co, detail.jpg (298.74 KB)
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jpg  Red Cross Activities at the Packard Factory.jpg (367.71 KB)
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jpg  Red Cross Activities at the Packard Factory,detail.jpg (392.33 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/11/1 23:21
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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From Clover, SC
Posts: 600
I have real difficulty with why people view and opine about the past and use today's standards as their judging guideline.
One can not re-write history to suit their agenda as many try today on Wikipedia and internet.
With airplanes, unlike cars, you get one chance to get it right because if you don't, you fall and crash. Wood isn't that energy absorbing under excessive loads - fails catastrophically. That's why there's a whole other world for aviation specs and regulations or we'd be ducking aircraft more often. Recently one fell into a house, so still happens but not as frequently as when they're shooting at you. Look at how control sophistication has back fired on Boeing. There are limits to current knowledge and understanding in every era.

Posted on: 2019/11/2 7:21
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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2008/5/22 13:43
From Vancouver, WA
Posts: 588
Agreed. I sometimes forget that when looking at the above pictures, for the most part, we're seeing the "state of the art.... then"....

Posted on: 2019/11/2 8:28
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Steve
Old cars are my passion

1951 Packard 200
1953 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan
1955 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer Tri-tone
1966 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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2008/2/16 15:39
From Santa Fe
Posts: 5284
The past is like a foreign country, they do things differently there. Or, something like that.

Posted on: 2019/11/2 9:58
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Re: Airplanes - Engines - Aircraft Testing Field
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From Coalmont, B.C., Canada
Posts: 703
Yes, JW, that is the quote that came to mind to me also! Fishin'Jim says he has 'real difficulty with people looking at the past using today's standards'; I get that, but, at the end of the day, what else do we have to look at the past? That's part of the whole vintage car world - looking at yesteryear with 'today's eyes' and having appreciation for and, sometimes, criticism and questions about, how things were done. It's like a machinist or engineer looking at some of the things that get posted on P.I., and having a broader, more educated overview and posting their thoughts. I always welcome instructive and correcting points of view from those who either know more or have 'done it before'. Perception is reality and for better or for worse, our take on things is borne of the experiences of our time. I think that's how we move forward and improve the state of the art of anything. BTW, was it just me, or did anyone else think those ladies looked like they were all on their Iphones?!!?! LOL Chris

Posted on: 2019/11/2 10:28
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'If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!' Henry Ford

1939 Six, Model 1700

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/index.php?Action=view&ID=1823
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