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Hello,

Trying to verify some information on the 1933 Packard that is here at Scotty's Castle in Death Valley National Park.

I have this car as a 1933 Twelve Coupe Roadster, model 1005, body style 639, build # 44, firewall # is I(eye)76397. Do these numbers make sense? I don't know where to look on the engine for the s/n or where to find the body number either - any help would be appreciated. I also understand that there were some 500+ of this car produced?

Thanks,
Mike Wehmeyer
Scotty's Castle
Death Valley National Park.

PS - we also have a 1914 touring sedan and we understand it is only 1 of 4 left in the world.

G'day Mike,
to PackardInfo. Accessing the Packard Model Information pages for 1933 will be a start and should provide you with further information.

There was some discussion recently(last 6 months?) about the Packards at Scotty's Castle but I can't find the thread concerned.

And I invite you to include both the '33 Twelve and the '14 Touring Sedan in the Packard Owner's Registry.

devaE2, gave you a quick response here where I first saw your query, if I can help you with more info, let me know.

http://www.packardclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1286&p=5255#p5255

Dear Mike:

As you correctly indicate the body number for the V-12 is part of the serial number. That is body style 639, car number 44. Or 639 044, 639 44, 639 X44 or whatever. This is good because 619 or 659 would indicate a body taken from an eight.

The number on the firewall was billed as the "thief proof" number. Numerous cars left the factory without one. The space between the arrows was blank. According to Packard they kept some kind of records for it, but they must have been destroyed.

The motor number is found midway on the left side of the block in the space just beneath the cylinder head.

There are three other serial numbers: one is on the left frame rail underneath the front fender, on the right side of the front axle, and on the back of the transmission near left of the drive shaft.

These four were all close to each other when built.

A picture of the '33 roadster can be found athttp://www.flickr.com/photos/italy_cycling/5549390848/ andhttp://www.ipernity.com/doc/ronslog/1306471.

Albert Johnson (builder of Scotty's Castle) bought it for his niece.

The number on the firewall was billed as the "thief proof" number, but so far as I know not one shred of paper has ever come out linking that number to a specific car on file at the Packard plant. Numerous cars left the factory without one.

Tim: One of my two articles on the thief-proof numbers as published in The Packard Cormorant showed a copy of an original Packard record correlating the thief-proof number to a specific vehicle, the record called the "vehicle unit record". As pointed out, only a small number of these records have been uncovered and those that do are the dealer copies. I'll enclose a copy of that record, this one from the Raymond Pautz collection.

Packard initiated the thief-proof number with the 6th Series (1929) and continued it thru 1956 with the exception of a portion of the model year 1940.

Sorry, I missed the "build #44" when I wrote my original response.

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Hi Owen:

I stand corrected.

Thanks

For those with an interest in "thief-proof" or body serial numbers, here's an update to the chart published in the two articles on the topic in The Packard Cormorant. Numbers in bold represent new data since last published. A discussion of the ranges, overlaps, anomolies, etc. can be found in the original articles in TPC Spring 2010 (#138) and Autumn 2010 (#140).

I always appreciate more data and have nearly enough to publish another update, so if you haven't supplied you VN, thief-proof, motor#, and other data if available like plant of origin (Detroit or Canada), and whether RHD or LHD, I'd really appreciate receiving same.

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Quote:

Tim, thanks for the quick reply! So fw # is really 176397, number from the plate is 639 44, and the motor # is 901361. Haven't found the other 3 s/n as the car is a bit hard to get under right now. The delivery date and dealer info on the plate are blank. Looks like the car was at the proving grounds in May 1933.

We have a picture of Albert Johnson standing in front of the car at his home in Chicago. It must've been taken in early '33 as he sold the house and moved to California that year. The picture also helps us confirm stories that we've had handed down to us about his driving ability - the right side white walls are pretty well scuffed Mr. Johnson gave this car to a family member but several years later she married someone he did not approve of and he took the car back and drove it out here to the Castle where it has been ever since.

In the background of this picture in the driveway sits another Packard - still trying to determine the year based on the front end. Mr. Johnson owned Packards almost exclusively since at least 1912 as he wrote a letter to his sister in 1913 stating that his "old" Packard was running fine but he want the big six cylinder touring car so the family could travel together. As a result he bought a 4-48 in 1914. That car is here at the Castle as well.

Given that '33 was the worst year of the depression for the US would Mr. Johnson have paid MSRP do you think? Given the relatively small number of cars Packard built that year one would think he might have been able to negotiate a good price, especially as he had been a Packard owner since the early 1900's and he was known to be a very "thrifty" individual.

Mike