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Hello All, first post here. I have a 1939 1701 made in Windsor Ontario Canada. Has anyone figured out an alternative way to operate the shutters or is spending almost $500US for a new replacement thermostat the only way ?

Thank you in advance for any replies !

G'day Alan Macaulay,
to PackardInfo. Apart from propping open the shutters believe a new or rebuilt thermostat is the only way to go. But more experienced hands than I should be able to better advise.

However, I invite you to include your '39 1701 in the Packard Owner's Registry.

As Mal said, several have permanently blocked them open but those cars all had regular thermostats too. If the shutters did need to be operational to regulate the cooling -- or just to kind of keep the original action -- I don't see why there could not be something like a universal hood release cable or OD lockout cable adapted to work the shutters.

Don't have any good photos of the front mechanism but from what I remember of a couple of blocked shutter photos that were posted, some threaded rod and a bracket replaced the regular rod to the thermostat arm and was used for the lockout means. I think there is enough room to make some simple linkage to ensure the wind didn't gradually force the shutters to push against the cable and close.

G'day all, Shutter block open tool is usually a timber wedge inserted between the thermostat and its housing to overcome the shutter closing springs.
Kind Regards.
PT

I'm not sure about other year Packards, but I know that on my 1940, you don't need to "block" the shutters open. All you need to do is adjust the mechanism under the hood. I suspect you can do that with other year cars as well. Mine quit working a couple of years ago, and have not yet had a chance to replace it.

If someone has a photo of the front workings or linkage area and also the distance needed to move them open or shut I'd be curious to see what it looks like. If there is enough room to mount a bracket for an easily removed assy should you want to later repair the original setup, I would almost bet a small unobtrusive bellcrank assy controlled by a Bowden cable could be made to work the shutters.

THE 'PINES-WINTERFRONT / SYLPHON SHUTTER SYSTEM

I never understood the engineering logic for adopting that monstrosity. Expensive to manufacture, difficult to set up properly. And then what? Your motor takes too long to warm up even in mild temps.

The worst thing you can do to a car motor is run it before it has reached full operating temp - at least 160 degrees "f".

And it wasnt just Packard that utilized the shutter system.

The pre-war Packards had outstanding cooling systems, far greater cooling capacity than necessary to handle even the most extreme conditions of temperature and speed.

That's the problem ! Even with the shutters tightly closed, there is so much water, and significant "leakage" of "bleed air" around the blades, that in the colder climes the car's motor never gets a chance to warm up properly.

That being said, I do think the system is neat! So I did spend the money over the years to keep the system operationa.

Yes - those Sylphon thermostats that operate the shutters are available - but wow...the price! Look at the bright side; they typically are durable - I've only replaced two in the sixty years that I have been driving pre-war "big" Packards on a regular basis.


Whether you decide to keep your Pines-Winterfront shutter system operational or not, I strongly recommend using modern ordinary "pellet" style thermostats - these block off any water flow coming out of the motor block, which means your motor will warm up quickly - again, the faster you warm it up, the better it will run, and the longer it will last.

Here's how I do it on my pre-war "big" Packards. I buy a pair of ordinary "small block Chevy" water outlet tubes. (you'll need two sets if you have a Packard Twelve - "standard" and "Super" eights need just one set, obviously.

Put the thermostats in and bolt em together - of course you want to be sure that the thermostats are facing the correct orientation when you put them in your upper radiator hoses.

Yes - you will be adding a restriction - the volume of water that can get thru a modern "pellet" type thermostat is less than just a straight piece of radiator hose.

Big deal - in the summer, I have found if the air temp. is much over 105 degrees, I have to keep my speed under 60 mph ( or simply remove the "blockage" and install a straight piece of radiator hose if I just HAVE to go faster when it is really REALLY hot....!)

You've got to go back in time to the 20s and before to appreciate the need for winterfronts in general and automated versions as a great advancement in particular. Surely I'm not the only one here that can remember cars boiling over in the winter with sub-zero temperatures because the coolant froze solid within the radiator core? That's what could and did happen in really cold weather when you attempted to drive your car before your engine block was delivering hot water to the radiator; with no heated coolant, the wind chill factor simply froze the coolant in the radiator core before any heated coolant arrived. Especially a problem in the days of methanol antifreeze before the permanent types became prevalent; methanol gradually evaporated and your antifreeze required regular tests and replenishment to maintain protection. Radiator shutters were introduced to eliminate the potential for that problem; both in years before and after shutters, in colder parts of the country inserting cardboard to cover a portion of the radiator core to keep it from freezing served the same purpose and was commonly done in colder climates.

I'm sure many of us have seen photos of cars before the advent of the automatic shutters with various winterfronts, both metal and fabric, used to minimize or stop radiator core freezing. I'll see if i can find a photo, maybe someone else has some as well.

As to longevity, the Fulton Sylphon units tend to last very long, my first one I bought from Hirsch lasted more than 40 years.

[quote]Owen_Dyneto wrote:
You've got to go back in time to the 20s and before to appreciate the need for winterfronts ..

+ + +

Of course Owen is correct - gives me a chance to harp on, to illustrate one of my pet theories - how "classic era" engineers came up with expensive and complex solutions to problems already eliminated by more modern thinking!

Actually, for the reasons Owen pointed out, radiator shutters are still seen today on "big rigs".

Modern big truck diesel engines are so efficient, even with internal themostats in their water cooling systems, they'd never warm up in really cold weather without the shutters blocking the air flow.

The introduction of 'modern' anti freeze (for example, glychol-based solutions) available in any auto parts store or dealer eliminated the need for shutters on passenger cars and light trucks. So by the early thirties, those shutters on cars were unnecessary, even harmful & thus obsolete.

Let's be honest - those monster multi-cylinder motors produced by Packard, Piece Arrow, Lincoln, Cadillac? To get smoothness ? Sure they were smoother, if you bolted the engine rigidly to the chassis.

The introduction of the rubber mounted motor in the early 1930's made them obsolete too - the multi cylinder concept was an outstanding engineering solution to a problem solved by simple rubber engine mounts !

Heck, my 4 cyl Toyota is as smooth as any big-engine classic.

Bottom line, those multi-cylinder monsters, along with their radiator shutters, were another example - obsolete before they rolled out of the factory!

But all this does not solve the problem asked by the guy who started this particular "thread" /what to do about shutters on classic-era big Packards.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think operating radiator shutters are neat !

So again, my recommendation is "bite the bullet". Buy that new expensive Sylphon ( as Owen notes, they will probably last longer than we will! )

And make sure the shutter mechanism is propertly set up and lubricated. Yes, there is a powerful "return-to-closed" spring in there - help it do its work by making sure the system is set up properly.

And add an "in line thermostat to your radiator hose, to insure quick and stable warm up.

Then drive the heck out of that pre-war "big" Packard ! When properly maintained, they are a delight to drive.

Going back to the original question " Has anyone figured out an alternative way to operate the shutters "
My 1929 Packard has a Sylphon Thermostat to operate the shutters, it did not work when I obtained the car. I fixed it by injecting a small amount of ether into the bellows. It had a small hole in the bellows that had been sealed with soft solder. Melting this opened the hole for injection of about 1 teaspoon of ether. That was over 10 years ago and it is still working.