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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#11
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Owen_Dyneto
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Don, to my knowledge such taxation is normally based on a calculated number generally called "taxable horsepower" which uses cylinder bore and not displacement in its derivation.

Posted on: 2018/10/30 20:04
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#12
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Ozstatman
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Very interesting.

By my calculations, with a 2 & 7/8" bore a 120 Packard would be rated at 25.9 horsepower and with a 3 & 1/4" bore would be rated at 33.8 horsepower.

Posted on: 2018/10/30 21:59
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#13
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Deskdriver
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This is a very interesting topic as Ozstatman said and this leads to different trains of thought. Such as tariffs, sales expectations, fuel economy, compatibility with metric sizing etc. WWI had ended many years before and most of the world was in the depression era.

I'm sure "Petrol" was difficult to obtain in many places around the world. What was available was probably expensive during that time. Maybe fuel consumption was a big selling point?

I recall in the 60's (as an example) a large influx of small bore engines entering the US, Renault, MG, Toyota, Datsun (we had a '62 Pick up, tiny) to name a few. These small bore engines had a difficult time keeping up with our road infrastructure. Would a smaller engine be better for the roads they had at the time?

As stated there is a smaller bore engine, what about gearing/ transmissions? Carburation? Would a smaller bore engine require a different carb or gear ratios?

I would bet many of those cars were reused as war material for WWII and would be extremely difficult to find. I wonder if there is any printed information such as brochures or patents in files in Europe and other countries?

Posted on: 2018/10/31 9:36
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#14
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HH56
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I am curious about the performance aspect of the smaller engines and how they fared. I suspect the majority of European roads of the time were narrow, twisty and could handle nowhere near the speed limits we were used to but still the smaller engines trying to move a large American car would seem to be asking a lot. Even some of the engines over here were maxed out at regular sizes. Wondering for a European buyer who was contemplating a purchase, did performance ever enter into the decision or was it only about the taxes? What kind of money was involved and were the large engines permitted if someone did want one?

Posted on: 2018/10/31 9:50
Howard
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#15
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Howard, you, DAF, and others respond as if this small engine was a reality and was actually built and supplied in export 1935 120s. I'm still doubtful, does anyone have any proof that this smaller engine actually ever reached production?

Posted on: 2018/10/31 10:30
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#16
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HH56
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I don't know that the engine was produced. I was mostly just curious how smaller version engines in general worked in Europe with the large American cars that did have them when even regular US production engines in the same model could be marginal. Were the taxes so high that customers who opted for an import just had to put up with maybe poor performance or were there reasonable cost options.

It was mentioned the average European small engined cars did not fare well here in wide open spaces and that was on a smaller lightweight car. Wondered about the reverse with a large heavy car with maybe not great performance on a typical European road. I remember riding in a VW Beetle with maybe 30 or 40 hp going up Waldo grade near San Francisco. By the time we got to the top it would almost have been quicker to get out and walk so can just imagine what a large car would do in similar situation with a small engine.

Posted on: 2018/10/31 11:57
Howard
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#17
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Not presuming that such an engine existed, the UK does tax on CC displacement for older vehicles (pre-2001) rather than on horsepower although they currently tax on emissions levels. I don't know what they were doing in the '50s but I am told that it was also by displacement.

Attach file:



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Posted on: 2018/10/31 14:01
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#18
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Owen_Dyneto
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Thanks, Don.

Posted on: 2018/10/31 15:05
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#19
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Owen_Dyneto
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So, let me try to summarize where we are on this:

1. There is no hard evidence that this engine was ever offered.

2. There is no hard evidence that this engine was not ever offered.

I was hoping for better.

Posted on: 2018/11/1 9:23
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Re: Small export engine for 120?
#20
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BigKev
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Take it with a grain of salt. But given the time period, this tidbit from Wikipedia about cars built at the Windsor plant offer this:

"Parts manufactured in Canada included tires, upholstery, radiator cores, headlamps, springs, wheels, while the engines were locally assembled"

Since the Windsor plant produced a very low volume of cars, with respect to the Detroit plant, a smaller special order export engine could have been possible and relatively unknown today.

Posted on: 2018/11/1 10:16
-BigKev


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