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JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#1
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JD in KC
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Here's some background on what I'm dealing with and why.

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Posted on: 2010/11/7 12:17
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#2
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JD in KC
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Day one: I need to find out if the motor/pump for the hydraulic windows works. It may seem odd to re-start the project with the hydraulic windows but there is method to my madness. If restoring the hydraulic window system is not feasible, then I'm going to be looking at a 12 volt conversion. Here's hoping it works.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 12:21
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#3
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Ozstatman
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Great background story JD! I'll be watching with interest in seeing the Limo return to it's former splendour. And remember, plenty of pic's!

Posted on: 2010/11/7 14:44
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

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Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
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Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#4
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JD in KC
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I applied 6 volts to the pump motor 'up' terminal and ... nothing. 6 volts to the down terminal... nothing. I figured the pump was probably stuck so I removed the pump. Applied the juice, up, down, nothing. Time for a little persuasion. Using a crescent wrench I gently coaxed the motor to turn. It turned reluctantly. I liberally doused the bearing end with 20 weight oil. It turned much easier. I re-applied the power and off it went both forwards and reverse. I doubt the motor has seen oil in 60+ years. Its location under the car in the path of mud and water can't help much.

Next I tackled the pump. The gears were totally stuck with rust and petrified brake fluid. The hydroscopic nature of brake fluid was pretty obvious. I dropped the pump into a can of paint thinner for a couple of hours. After much fussing the gears finally moved. I removed the gears and cleaned them up as best I could. Cleaned out the pump body and re-assembled the motor/pump. Applied power and it works.

So... looks like I'm staying with 6 volt and can look forward to replacing what amounts to a second set of metal brake lines just to open/close the windows. I'm assuming that the hydraulic lines are in the same condition as the interior of the pump which would be pretty clogged.

Tomorrow I'll paint the now clean motor/pump, bag it and shelve it 'till it's needed. Might drop by NAPA and see how much it's going to cost to have new flexible hoses made up using the old ones for models. These are the hoses that connect the motor/pump to the fluid storage tank and the hard lines to the windows. Also going to need two '0' gauge 5' cables to replace the patched-up originals.

We're havin' some fun now!

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Posted on: 2010/11/7 18:57
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#5
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JD in KC
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While I was waiting for the primer to dry on the window hydraulic fluid holding tank, I decided to see if there was any way to test the window regulator solenoids. The driver door window solenoid had been removed and I thought I remembered seeing it in a box along with a spare starter motor and some other stuff that was in the trunk of the car when I got it. I found the box on a shelf and started removing the contents. I was amazed at what I found. The starter motor turned out to be another Electro-Hydraulic window pump. There were four correct window cylinders, two other window cylinders from I know not what, two regulator solenoids, 1 complete up/down 'starter' solenoid relay set with two spare solenoids, and enough correct window switches to do two Packards. The pump turned out to be the one that originally came with the car... in worse shape than the one I just cleaned up, but I did get the motor part running. The pump part is still mired in rust with the gears stuck.

It appears the prior owner had purchased the entire electro-hydraulic system off of another Packard for parts. I just hope I have better luck with it than he did.

Here's my unexpected treasure trove:

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Posted on: 2010/11/17 0:08
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#6
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West Peterson
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JD
This may have already been mentioned, but worst-case scenario you should not have to include reverting to 12-volts. We used 6-volt motors from 1950s Lincolns to "update" the windows in two or three of our 180 Packards.

Posted on: 2010/11/17 8:49
West Peterson
1930 Packard Speedster Eight Runabout (boattail)
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

http://aaca.org/
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#7
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Bob
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JD I,m restoring a 41 180 7Pass LeBaron any extra window switches for sale Thanks Bob

Posted on: 2010/11/17 9:52
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#8
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JD in KC
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Quote:

West Peterson wrote:
JD
This may have already been mentioned, but worst-case scenario you should not have to include reverting to 12-volts. We used 6-volt motors from 1950s Lincolns to "update" the windows in two or three of our 180 Packards.


West, thanks. I do have your solution in my notes. The reason I would contemplate 12 volts is because I would be looking at possibly using a linear actuator to operate the windows. To the best of my knowledge, these are 12 volt only. If that isn't feasible, then the modern 'hot rod' power window conversion kits would seem the cleanest way to go (again... 12 volt).

This 180 will never see the show circuit. Too much has been done to it in the past. I will be striving to make it look as correct as I possibly can within a limited budget doing most of the work myself.

It's possible I might hide a 12 volt battery in a period piece of luggage in the trunk in lieu of a complete conversion. Time will tell.

Are the 50's Lincoln motors adaptable to the existing hydraulic straight line lift or do you replace the entire mechanism from the window down with the Lincoln lifter assembly?

I have yet to test the pump with fluid under pressure to see if it leaks. I will be using type F transmission fluid, not DOT 3 brake fluid.

It's always nice to have other options if this doesn't work out.


Quote:
packard0820 wrote:
JD I,m restoring a 41 180 7Pass LeBaron any extra window switches for sale Thanks Bob

A 1941 180 LeBaron? Tell you what... we can trade cars and I'll throw in all the switches, and the pump for free!

Seriously, I don't know which (if any) switches work. Once I get this all sorted out and decide what to keep and what to let go, I'll let you know.

Posted on: 2010/11/17 10:22
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#9
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HH56
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A nice find. Amazing what gets stashed and forgotten.

Would be surprised if the cylinders still held without leaking, but believe Hydro-e-Lectric at one time had repro cylinders and inline solenoids for the prewars. They haven't advertised them recently so not sure if still available--although they do say call if you don't see an item listed. I believe I saw an ad some time back with Kanter listing some as well.

Linear actuators do have appeal for the simplicity of no fluid running around. Unless you are going to add AC though, cost of 12v conversion & designing the control circuitry and then machining whatever is needed to make things work might be more than replacing the cylinders since you have the rest of the system. No idea how plentiful Lincoln or Chrysler components might be either but whatever you choose, will be following the progress.

Posted on: 2010/11/17 10:57
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#10
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JD in KC
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
...Would be surprised if the cylinders still held without leaking, but believe Hydro-e-Lectric at one time had repro cylinders and inline solenoids for the prewars...


I contacted Hydro-e-Lectric last week and they do still have the pre-war cylinders and inline solenoids. So if the pump doesn't leak, I know that I can restore the system.

With any luck I'll have something set up to test the pump using transmission fluid by the weekend.

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Posted on: 2010/11/18 0:09
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