Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

G'day Jason,
for your insights into starters, generators and related matters, generous of you to provide professional advice.
Also, to PackardInfo, as I haven't done so before! See in your public profile you don't have a Packard but do have antique tractors. Maybe you could share a pic of some of those? There are members here with the same interest.

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Jason, thanks. I've had the car for less than a month. It has a new battery because I required one from the seller as part of the deal since the one that was in the car wouldn't hold a charge.
Just to be sure we are all singing out of the same hymnal... I am dealing with an Auto-Lite starter out of a '49 senior car. I believe this is considerably different in operation than a Delco Remy. Attached is a picture of the starter in my '50 which is an identical unit. I suspect that when the electro-magnetic powered drive gear is supposed to retract from the flywheel when the engine starts, the circuit that activates the motor isn't being interrupted. I need to get the starter out of the car anyway to remove some of the Electromatic Clutch mechanism cluttering up the engine bay and to clean, paint, lubricate, and inspect it for brush wear, etc.

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Dave, it might sound like a joke or the work method of a farmer but I wasn't joking when I talked about a hammer blow on the housing of the solenoid switch. While engaging or disengaging the switch can get jammed and an encouraging pat would show him the right way.




To work with a hammer is not to everybody's taste, is not a durable solution and could damage the black coating but if you are under way at a rainy night and a pack of wolves starts to howl the song of Alaska then a well-directed blow could shorten the diagnostics.

Ask a man who owns a hammer.




[picture source: www.motortalk.de]

Gerd, I didn't think you were joking. I think a nice smack with a ball-peen hammer would probably stop it. However, the former owner attached one of those cheap battery disconnect devices directly on the starter motor. I have no doubt this was because of the problem. A classic case of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. Once the power is cut, the starter returns to its non-engaged position.

Thanks for the cut-away photo of the starter, I was trying to find one. That's very similar in concept to the Auto-Lite.

I see a relay in the Autolite solenoid which could be the whole issue. Motor's Manual 20th edition, & probably Chilton has a cutaway, schematic and troubleshooting info. PM with an email address if you would like the article-- 1 1/2 pages.

Correct, The Autolite solenoid you have has a separate relay in the box portion of the solenoid which extends over the side. I realize the hammer strike can be an emergency option, but try to avoid this becoming a habit. I've seen a lot of major damage due to someone getting all to used to doing this on a regular basis. Feel free to contact me for help.
Jason
Advanced Electrical Rebuilders
www.aerrebuild.com
jason@aerrebuild.com

Dear JD:

Forget the hammers because that is an easy way to damage Packards.

You have a real fire hazard on your hands because I have seen cars with stuck starters catch fire. Also, that starter is expensive merchandise and excessive cranking is not good.

From the looks of things this problem has been around for a while because the starter is rebuilt. I haven't seen one of those high reduction starters stick in the on position.

However, to test go to Radio Shack and make up an inline fuse for the left (outside) wire that is the switch feed to the solenoid. Put the thing inline and wait for the unit to stick.

If the disconnecting the fused lead stops the problem then you probably have a wiring harness short.

Remove the cover on the solenoid arm (four screws) and check the return action. It should spring back by itself.

It could be that a part is missing inside the starter.

Good luck,

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Howard, thanks for the tip. I have a 17th edition Motor's Manual and found that it also has the info on this type of starter. I should have looked there first. The old Motor's and Chilton's are really good when it comes to information on generators, starters, carburetors, etc. It should be very helpful when I get the starter out of the car.

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Thanks Jason. I wouldn't seriously take a hammer to anything under the hood. Wolves or no wolves.

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The photo is not of the problem starter. It's of the same model starter on my '50. It had been removed, cleaned, lubed, painted, etc. It works just fine. The cause of the problem being a short in the harness is still a possibility but I would expect a short to cause the starter to crank spontaneously. This doesn't seem to be the case (so far).

Starting from a well tempered hammer blow as a less-than-ideal but temporarily helpful solution, rapidly developing to becoming a habit and doing this on a regular basis and culminating in an easy way to damage Packards - within a few hours.
The group dynamic effects of the 1970s would probably have led to a self-incrimination as hammer murderer. Forty years later we succesful refined that process of getting noncommittal to I wouldn't seriously take a hammer to anything under the hood.







[picture source:http://www.oetigheim.de/]

Well I hope that I don't get branded as a hammer murderer or a pychopath determined to damage Packards with a hammer BUT I have on rare occasions used this hammer on starter method as an emergency repair when stuck in wildlands where timber wolves actually do live. I have never had much fear of timber wolves since they so rarely if ever bother humans but I hate spending nights in the bush with a broken down truck when a hammer blow to a starter might get me home.